Talk:Clark the Seamster
Oddly enough, I can't find any info on the historical analog beyond his name, even though he was involved in a very poignant historical event.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:36, June 15, 2019 (UTC) :Found this on some dude's blog: HDQRS. SECOND BRIGADE, THRD DIVISION, FIFTEENTH ARMY CORPS, Resaca, Ga., October 12, 1864. General J. B. HOOD: Your communication of this date just received. In reply I have to state that I am somewhat surprised at the concluding paragraph, to the effect that “If the place is carried by assault no prisoners will be taken.” In my opinion I can hold this post; if you want it come and take it. I am, general, very respectfully, your most obedient servant, CLARK R. WEVER, Commanding Officer. SOURCES: The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, Series I, Volume 39, Part 1 (Serial No. 77), p. 753; Burton Dunham Ingersoll, Iowa and the Rebellion, p. 305 :That explains the problem. The primary sources don't agree on the correct spelling of his name.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:23, June 18, 2019 (UTC) Policy Decision I have recently removed a number of trades from various Detinan generals and politicians (e.g. Jeb the Steward, Daniel the Weaver) since they are punny names for people we don't see practicing those trades. I see Matthew added "Tailor" here which I think is inappropriate. However, rather than just remove this, I feel we should have a discussion to see whether everyone else agrees or not. ML4E (talk) 18:34, June 16, 2019 (UTC) :I agree. Turtle Fan (talk) 13:15, June 17, 2019 (UTC) ::Haven't read the series, but if they don't actually participate in the specified trade, then I agree. TR (talk) 14:20, June 17, 2019 (UTC) :::Saying that the characters aren't seen practicing the trade is in fact a weak argument for saying they're not in it, as HT frequently uses the "tell, don't show" method of developing characters and/or plot points; e.g., Don Partridge's legendary stupidity is never actually depicted until his final scene, and the House of Universal Devotion has supposedly committed numerous offenses against all Christian decency which are not depicted or even described at all.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 07:05, June 22, 2019 (UTC) ::::But the HUD isn't based on the need for HT to show off his wordplay skills. Partridge might be, but he's in a story with greater verisimilitude (and by the way I'm not so sure his last scene shows legendary stupidity, just an expectation that events will fit within the framework of a longstanding status quo and the inability to recognize immediately that the ground has shifted beneath him. Intelligent people miss points like that all the time; in fact I'd argue they're more likely to do so, since they're better at fitting isolated events into a coherent framework.) Turtle Fan (talk) 12:28, June 22, 2019 (UTC) Puns are for the sake of puns. Claiming that the high ranking nobleman is practicing a lowly trade just because of the punny name is the weak argument. So no, unless people in tWBtP are actually shown or at least specified practicing the trade then they should not be categorized in that trade. Jim of the Crew being cated as a sailor is fine since it is implied by the POV character that he looked like he was part of the crew. But unless someone comments that Clark the Seamster's house is well known for their clothing, he should not be cated that way. :That too. Sometimes a blueblood family's distant past is reflected in its name--the best example I can think of might be the Stuart monarchs, whose ancestors actually were stewards back then the Bruce family produced Kings of Scots--but even if we had hard confirmation that were the case, it wouldn't put these characters in their trades. And the need to make a pun work gives us way, way less than that. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:16, June 22, 2019 (UTC) The one exception I left is Thert the Butler because, while we don't see him actually buttling, he also doesn't seem to be a nobleman and so can be assumed to be a buttler. However, for consistency, perhaps that should be removed too. ML4E (talk) 15:56, June 22, 2019 (UTC) :If he'd served the Scarlett O'Hara analog--Vermillion, perhaps?--he surely would not have been so rude to her. He could have been someone else's butler, but one rarely reaches the top of that particular profession without making a habit of showing a certain level of deportment at all times when out in public. He probably isn't a nobleman, which matches with his inspiration quite well: Rhett Butler was unapologetically new money, and his disdain for the planters' pretensions led to the planters' disdain for him. Even in northern Detina, there's something of a middle class--Gremio is well aware of the fact that he fits into it, and of course there's Roast Beef William--so it should not be assumed that every brunette Detinan who is not an aristocrat himself necessarily serves an aristocrat. :Even if that weren't so, yes, we should remove it for consistency's sake. :By the way, if I remember correctly, Rhett was descended (much to Gerald O'Hara's distaste) from the Earls of Ormond, that is, the Butler family. The founder of that family, Theobald Walter, held some sort of arcane feudal office in 12th-century England that included the honor of acting as chief butler at a king's coronation banquet, but was not a full-time butler. Nevertheless, he changed his name to de Bottilier. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:16, June 22, 2019 (UTC) ::My take is that Thert was being unusually insolent because the world had gone to hell around him, and saw no need to keep up the butler's usually subservient mask. Vermilion or whatever we want to call her was shocked by this cheek from a servant, and slapped him out of instinct for this very reason.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:02, June 23, 2019 (UTC) :::Given that HT only put that scene in there to do a little GwtW riff, I don't think it's wise to assume a radically different dynamic from GwtW on so little evidence. :::That, and it's hard to imagine an ethnic Detinan working as a professional servant in the north. Vermilion's family are landed, it's hard to imagine their estate of Traa doesn't have blonds tied to it, why would they pay Thert a salary when they could have a serf run the household for free? Turtle Fan (talk) 15:39, June 23, 2019 (UTC)